Personal Finance and Dating

Four ways to attract girls: 1) looks, 2) social skills – “game”, 3) relative status and 4) money. That breaks it down quite well. Instead of arguing about which one is “more important” we are going to focus on money in this post. You should always work towards maximizing all of your four categories. However. We assume you are at the *median* in the other three categories (no competitive advantage when it comes to status, looks or game. Simply the median).

1) Overview of Why Money Matters

2) Quick Calculations For Your Relative Dating Market Value

3) If She Can’t Experience It, It Does Not Exist

4) Why Over 70% of People Are “Below Average”

5) “But I Know a Rich Guy Who Struggles”

Overview of Why Money Matters

Since our readership is full of intelligent people… you already know why money matters. You can use money to improve your looks (clothes, healthier food). You can use money to hire a social skills coach (extreme situation). You can use money to hire a personal trainer (fitness). You can use money to elevate your relative status (owning expensive assets). Money simply makes life easier.

Please take a look at the graph below and you’ll understand why you should work hard in your 20s. The graph depicts her expectations of your income versus your age.

Untitled

As you get older and older, the amount of money you’re *expected* to have will continue to increase! If you’re young (college or just out of college), girls do not have high expectations. You’re young, broke and hopefully cool/popular. Money doesn’t matter much.

You simply do the following: 1) get in incredible shape and join a sports team, 2) learn how to dress and 3) improve your social skills. Since girls do not have high expectations when you’re 18-22 years old, do not try to use money to get girls. You don’t have enough money and they do not care. They are more concerned with you being a cool and attractive person.

At 23 the fun begins.

For those of you that made the right decisions… the amount of money you’re making will help you *immensely*. If you are making ~$150K out of college as an investment banker, you’re going to have a slight edge over your competition. However. When you start making ~$300K+ at age 26-28 you are now in the top ~10% in major cities and life will get significantly easier.

In Short: When you are young, girls care much less about how much money you make. They care much more about how cool you are (status). How attractive you are (looks). How funny and interesting you are (“game”). This changes at age ~23. Even if you’re still trying to date younger girls they *expect* you to have some income. Living at home in your parents basement is simply not going to cut it. You should have a roommate for the first year or two, post college. But. You should go ahead and live on your own by the time you are ~25 years old.

Quick Calculations For Your Relative Dating Market Value

Unlike other places on the Internet, we are going to break down the income brackets for you in a simple graph.

income

As you can see by the graph, you need to make *at least* the median income in order to consistently date girls in the 6-7 range. If you are extremely good looking or have extremely high status (musician, DJ etc.) you can break these rules. But. Nothing else will help you if you’re below the median. If you have incredible social skills but can’t even afford to live in a major city, the girl is going to ditch you. A girl who is a solid 7 still has dating options.

Girls in the 5 and Below Range: As mentioned in the graph… Who cares. Don’t bother “practicing game” on these girls. Simply avoid them and move on. One day you will black out from partying too much and make a mistake. But. Do not talk to these girls on purpose! Everyone has a loss somewhere on their dating resume.

Girls in the 6 Range: A six is simply your type but other people wouldn’t be attracted to them. If you like XYZ type look and she’s “okay” it usually means she’s a 6 to you and a 5 to someone else. This shouldn’t matter to you, so simply proceed as normal. She knows she’s in the 7 range for most guys and will adjust her expectations accordingly (notice: girls automatically give themselves 1 extra point). This means you should generate at least the median income.

Girls in the 7 Range: Now you’re solidly in “cute” territory. This means the girl knows she’s relatively attractive and she will raise her expectations. You need to be in decent shape, have decent social skills and not be socially awkward. More importantly, since this is about money, you should generate at least 1.0-1.5x the median income to consistently get girls in the 7 range.

Girls in the 8 Range: Competition is heating up aggressively. Just like improvement, dating is not a linear curve. It is an exponential curve. Girls in the 8 range know they are attractive. They are approached all of the time and will raise their standards yet again. You need to be in shape, decent looking and have solid social skills. You also need to generate serious amounts of cash flow to stay in the 8 range consistently. This means you need to generate at least 3.0-4.5x the median income. It becomes much more complicated at these levels. If you’re doing great on all of the other items (looks, status, social skills) you only need to generate about 3x the median income.

Girls in the 9+ Range: Now we are in the upper echelon. Congratulations! Anything in the “9-10” range is simply a girl everyone will say is gorgeous. In addition, she is likely your “type”. Meaning if you’re into Latin girls or if you’re into white girls, the lowest they will be called is a “9”. A 10 to you may be a Russian blonde, but if another person likes Asian girls she will be a “9”. These girls have an incredible amount of options. For all you know, they are already high end escorts for wealthy men in the 9 figure range. If you want to consistently compete at this level you need to generate 5-10x the median income. The range gets much wider depending on who you are. One thing is for sure. Extremely attractive women have a ton of options so they will not date men who are “average”. Anyone who believes otherwise is simply full of it. Good luck splitting a $40 round of drinks with a girl in the 9 range. You’ll get paved.

In Short:  You can calculate your worth pretty easily. If you’re doing fine in all of the three other categories and you can generate the median income… You can pick up girls in the 7 range consistently.

“As long as you have two commas in your bank account… You will always be a seven” – Wall Street Playboys

The quote above isn’t really a joke. If you have $1M generating ~5-6% returns you are making the median household income (post-tax) and will have no problem dating 7s. If you’re in the seven figure net worth range and cannot do this it means you either: 1) have serious social issues, 2) are out of shape and are in bad health or 3) are not spending any of it. The third piece is critical.

If She Can’t Experience It, It Does Not Exist

Repeat that phrase over and over again. If a girl cannot experience the money you have, it does not exist in her mind. This is why we continue to hammer down the importance of building a company *and* building a career in your 20s. If you make $1.2M a year but live in an RV located in Alaska… She’s not going to care about you.

The income requirements are based on money being *used*. If you generate the median income and use all of it, you will be able to date 7s without much trouble.

Location: As you can imagine, the median income requirements are based on *your city*. In major cities such as New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles and Miami, this is roughly $80-85K gross income. If you are living in a city where the median wage is only $1K a month and can spend $3K a month… You’re well into the 8 range. Income depends on your location. Everything in life is relative.

Net Worth Can Be Meaningless: In the extreme case where you are worth $5M+. But. Live in an RV… Girls will not care at all. If you are generating $250K+ in disposable income but spend $1K a month, you’re not going to get any girls. If you generate $250K+ in spendable income but you are *using it all* now you’re getting somewhere.

Create The Experience: This is where being well rounded will help you immensely. You should have many hobbies. You leverage these hobbies into interesting experiences which can include the following: 1) front row tickets to a concert, 2) tables directly next to the DJ, 3) large sporting events such as the Mayweather Pacquiao fight, 4) high end art events, 5) charity events where you are seen literally giving money away, 6) nice apartment/condo in the center of the city, 7) using a black car service at all times, 8) drugs and 9) anything else you can think of. If you don’t have a personality then you already know what to do… Get out of your comfort zone. No attractive girl is going to enjoy spending her time around a type A boring person. They want excitement and fun. Looking at a 10-year yield curve is no where on her list.

Boring City, Limited Upside: This is yet another topic we don’t see discussed much. If you live in a city that is boring and does not have much to do… You’re limiting your ability to leverage your income. This is absolutely critical. If you get into the 3x median income range and find that there is no way to leverage your income… It is time to leave! In addition, the cities with the least to do typically have the least attractive women! You can apply this across countries as well. If you live in the most popular city in country X you’re going to find that there are a lot more forms of entertainment and the “high end” has high caliber women (PHD, Lebain, Catch, 1Oak). Sure there may be rare “exceptions to the rule” but we don’t know many cities full of attractive women with nothing to do (you couldn’t pay us enough to live in Nampa, Idaho).

In Short: If she can’t experience it, it does not exist. If you are an 8 figure man and spend $1K a month you’re not going to obtain any leverage out of your cash flow. Find interesting hobbies and use them to meet the girls you like. If you can spend 3x the median income in your city and are not able to meet women, this is a clear sign that 1) looks, 2) social skills or 3) status needs to be raised immediately. Something needs to be fixed.

Why Over 80% of People Are “Below Average”

This graph explains everything in life. It explains income, it explains dating and it even explains life experiences. There is a massive positively biased skew to life and over 80% of people will fall below the average. This is simply reality.

distribution

Knowing that ~80% of people are going to fall below average you know that the girls are going to flock to the top 20%. This is shown on numerous college campus studies where 1/5 of the men receive the majority of the sex (Reiteration: join a college sports team if you can! Full ride + immediate status).

This ratio doesn’t change as you get older and likely gets worse! Particularly as you get into the 30+ range where many men have decided to marry and others simply gave up and settled for a life of mediocrity.

Staying Above Average on the Income Side: This one is easy. Read our post on careers and you will have a hard time being below average. If you put in your best effort based on what type of intelligence you have… You will make money at or above the average. This will give you enough income to spend *at least* the median level in your city and invest the rest. You’ll gain momentum over time particularly as your event and performance based income increases over time. In the interim… You are spending at or slightly above the median to maintain a normal and fun social life.

Use Money to Improve Your Looks: You cannot do anything about your height. You cannot do anything about your race. You can do a lot with 1) your build, 2) your hair style, 3) the clothes you wear, 4) your body language and 5) your diet. Instead of wasting hours and hours talking about things you cannot control, focus on the 5 items listed in this paragraph. Do the opposite of your peers and get a basic understanding of how to improve your looks. Use your money to get a solid gym membership, purchase some nice fitting clothes, stretch daily to improve your posture and of course use that money to buy premium fuel for your body (fruits, vegetables, fish oil etc.).

Use Money to Improve Your Status: This is straight forward. In a club environment, the easiest way is to become friends with the bouncer and bartender. Alternatively. You can go straight for the jugular and obtain the table next to the DJ. It simply depends on where you are in life. If you’re trying to compete with guys in the 8 figure range in the most expensive club in town on an investment banking associate budget… You’re going to struggle. This is simply reality. Find a venue that has girls you’d like to meet and calculate your relative status in that environment. If you will be in the top ~1/5 in the venue… It’s the correct venue to enter.

In Short: Life is a positively skewed bell curve. It is not a normal bell curve. The vast majority of people fall below average leaving an open field for those in the top 20%. This ratio only gets worse over time and if you can get into the top 2-3% you’ll be swimming in options. Sooner than later… you’ll be avoiding phone calls. If you have to go out of your way to meet girls and you are 30+… Something went wrong.

“But I Know a Rich Guy Who Struggles”

To wrap up this post, the most common rebuttal is someone saying “I know a rich guy who can’t get girls! Therefore money doesn’t matter!”

This is pure non-sense. We have provided a solid guideline to how much money you need to make…

For a 7: ~1.0-1.5x median income; For an 8: ~3-4.5x median income; For a 9: 5.0x+ median income.

The only way this equation *does not work* is if you violate the original premises laid out in the post. We simply have not seen anyone with normal social skills and an income of $250K+ complain about girls in NYC. If you are 1) overweight, 2) dress like a slob, 3) don’t spend money on experiences and 4) have horrible social skills, then you have broken the rules in this post.

Boring Type A Personality: This is the most common. Many, many, many people with high incomes do not have an interesting personality. This is why we recommend going out 2x per week when you’re young (Thursday & Saturday). This creates a baseline for your social skills. It forces you to improve. Under no circumstances do you live inside of a basement coding the next amazing app for 7 years straight. You deserve to go out at least two times a week. If you know someone who is a boring type A person but has money… You know what to do. Befriend them and try to see if you can create money together. If there is no business overlap and the guy is unwilling to learn basic social skills, stop returning his calls. Move on.

Simply Unattractive: You don’t need to be a model. You don’t need to be 6′ 3″ with blonde hair, blue eyes and a testosterone level of 1,000 at all times. You simply need to be the best *you* that you can be. If you are of average height but have a solid build, you’re going to be well ahead of your peers. Guys who are shorter but are built like “Greek gods” are going to do just fine (Frank Zane is a great example). Again. You do not have to look like a professional body builder either. Simply get your body fat into the single digits and put on extra muscle weight. As a review, here are the general guidelines (get to within 85-90% of these numbers):

Wrist Measurement Multiplied by (Number) to Obtain Ideal Body Part Metric: Chest:6.57x, Waist:4.57x, Hip:5.57x Thigh:3.43x Bicep:2.43x Neck:2.43x Calves:2.29x Forearm: 1.86x

Poor Style: This is honestly an epidemic. While obesity is certainly the number one epidemic in the USA, poor fit and poor style is second on the list. It does not take much to look nice! Simply find clothes that fit and put them on!

In addition, take the next step and also find what colors suit you best. We don’t know if you are Black, White, Latino, Asian, Indian or Middle Eastern (we also don’t care). But. Please find the colors that will match your skin tone best. Here is a quick and basic book on the topic.

In Short: The argument of knowing a “rich guy who struggles” is simply rationalization. The person is trying to find examples to prove he is correct. This way he does not have to take responsibility for his life or his decisions. The only group of people we see struggle with women (once they clear 3x the median wage) are… Type A boring people and extremely lazy slobs. If you go out 2x per week and stay in shape? You’re not going to end up in this camp.

Use this to filter out your friends. Anyone who tries to tell you money doesn’t matter… is rationalizing their failures. Take a mental note and slowly fade away from them.

Concluding Remarks:

This post focused primarily on income and dating. If you are extremely handsome “a male 10” or have extremely high status in an area (DJ, Musician, etc.) then you can certainly break these rules. The overall premise, however, is the same. If you can spend 1.5x the median wage in your city (not save but spend on experiences) then you will have no problems dating in the 7 range. If you can get into the 5x median range and are in shape with solid social skills, you’re going to be sending girls into voice-mail consistently.

For a 7: ~1.0-1.5x median wage ; For an 8: ~3-4.5x median wage; For a 9: 5.0x+ median wage

– If you cannot find a way to date attractive girls while spending 3x+ the median wage in your city, the problem is personal. You should be able to obtain dates easily by having better ideas, better venues (concerts, major events, private parties, charity events) and better logistics

– As you get older, girls expect you to make more money. When you’re young take advantage of this and prepare for the future. By 30 you should be at or above the median in spending power (bare minimum).

“As long as you have two commas in your bank account you will always be a seven”

– If she can’t experience it, it does not exist. If your net worth is in the 8 figure range but you live in an RV and dress like a slob, no one will care.

– Location matters a lot for 1) determining median income, 2) potential upside in terms of experiences and 3) your ability to leverage your income to *your advantage*

– Money can improve your looks, it can improve your status (calculate the relative value of people at the venue) and it can even improve your social skills as you should feel much more confident in your personal value

– Dating and *life in general* is a positively skewed bell curve. Roughly 80% of people are below average. This is simply a harsh truth.

– Anyone who claims that money is irrelevant is simply rationalizing or is extremely young (has not seen the wealth impact yet). If they are in their 20s, they don’t know whats going to happen when the inflection point hits (around 30) and the long-term pain will come (40+).

– Avoid people who attempt to rationalize their poor decisions.

– from the comments here is the “median” for the other three categories:

Looks: you are about 5’8″. You are roughly 13-15% body fat. You are not fat or skinny or ripped. You know how to wear appropriate fitting clothes. You look better with a shirt on than a shirt off at the beach.

Game: you don’t have social anxiety issues. You can spark a convo at a bar with girls or at a coffee shop. You do not have cold hard calculated regimens. A guy with incredible game can teach you a trick or two but you don’t *need* advice. You are socially normal.

Status: since you’re at the median it doesn’t hurt or help you. You are not a DJ, bartender, promoter, musician, gangster, or ball player. You are simply a typical guy in the environment. You are not able to push guys around with status symbols (tables, bottles, sports car).

Notably, we will not let the post degrade into a debate regarding “what is more important” (IE: Looks or game, money or looks, status or money etc.)

Why? It depends on who you are talking to.

If the girl is obsessed with music you are going to have a huge edge by being in a good band (status).

If the girl is a trust fund baby, you are going to have a huge edge by being attractive since she doesn’t need the money (looks)

If the girl is upper middle class and lives a boring life, your edge is going to come from entertainment/fun (game)

If the girl is dead broke and is a gold digger, you’re going to have a huge edge by being rich (money)

Just don’t trust them!

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Comments

  1. European reader says

    Wow interesting overlap! I live in London and just did the math based on the median income here and I am spending approximately 2x the median wage. The result is that I’m dating girls that are mainly 7/8s in my opinion which falls in-line with the numbers here. I wonder if there are cities where the multiples are lower and higher, I’m sure there are but I can at least confirm this is a good metric to use. As a note here for other people I am in my early 30s so I’m on the flatline section of the chart until mid-30s. Got to go and make some more money!!!

  2. A says

    Hey guys.

    I’m an affiliate marketer. 22 years old, and 4 months. Got into self development early. My weaknesses are my diet/health (out of shape but it’s not horrible, 20-25% bodyfat).

    I used to have horrible game but now I’m competent thanks to years hitting it hard day game night game online game and am no longer borderline autistic. Have accumulated like 25 legit lays lol.

    Not sure where I stand in terms of status, I’m self employed and run a very small company (S corp for tax reasons of course).

    I have a net worth of about $500-600k after all tax liabilities. So my money game is strong.

    I’m on track to make over a million net in 2015. Q1 was 400k net profit and all of it goes into my own personal bank account.

    If all goes right, I’ll be a “self made” millionaire at age 22.

    I’ve had businesses in the past as well that didn’t do that well compared to AM, but I was earning like $100k/yr in college.

    What is the best way to communicate this job (relatively high status and honestly a “dream job”) to women without seeming try hard or braggy? Saying I’m the CEO sounds really grandiose since it’s my own company with like 3 employees lol.

    I always lie to women about my age (say I’m 25-30) because I’m so young and I want to fuck hot women that are older than me. I live in Uptown Dallas where the crowd is a bit older, with the youngest girls being my age. I’m able to pull it off. 80% of my lays are women older than me.

    Also, I drive a relatively newer model Porsche. Again, how to use this without being braggy and try hard?

    Thanks,

    A

    • Wall Street Playboys says

      Well in that case jump straight into the section on experiences.

      We don’t live in uptown dallas and since you work as an affiliate the move may be to switch cities.

      1) get your health in order. If you’re rich but fat or incredibly skinny she’ll simply next you. In your case 25% is insanely overweight and unattractive. Get to 10-15% minimum by year end.
      2) yes you can go ahead and use a nice whip just don’t talk about it or else you will be shooting yourself in the foot.
      3) never mention what you do for a living, just say “sales” if really forced. Most girls don’t care if you’re already living a fun life.

      Based on your post: step one get your health and clothes in order (emergency code red situation), step two work on building a network of cool events to go to (at $1M a year you should be best friends with *all* the bouncers and bartenders in your area or something is being done incorrectly, start dropping 50-100% tips to build the persona you want to convey). Again. NEVER brag or say how much you make. Let other people figure it out themselves. Much better sale and that is sales 101.

      • says

        @Cattle Actually went to UTD for free on full ride lol, no SMU or TCU.

        @ WSPB I agree with your opinion that my physique is the #1 problem right now. I’m going to the gym now and going to hire a trainer on the spot (Best gym in Dallas costs like $200 a month for a basic membership)

        BTW I’m also Asian American which I believe makes it super difficult relative to my white peers. I only fuck cute/hot white girls which makes it even MORE challenging. (Literally 95% of my laycount is white).

        I am completely assimilated (grew up in Austin), have no accent, am 6’1″ (damn I got lucky on that genetic dice roll) Facial aesthetics above average for an Asian but definitely nothing outstanding. Considering minor tweaks via facial plastic surgery as crazy as that sounds, but I don’t really give a fuck as long as it’s effective and +ROI

        You mentioned style. My clothes are 10/10, I hired a top knotch image consultant.

        BTW I save like 90% of my income and other people in the area tend to overspend on their lifestyle, so I LOOK like I make maybe $100-200k a year max even though I’m netting a million. How are they going to “figure it out for themselves” if I’m not spending it? (I think spending a large % of it when my net is below $5m is stupid, time value of money blah blah)

        Also sometimes people tend to DIG into my business, like if I just say “sales” they will fire back with more probing questions until I become more specific. It gets to the point where they’ve asked like six questions in a row.

        Also my business isn’t the most stable thing in the world, which is why I save such a high %.

      • says

        Also, I am strongly considering moving. Problem is I have a bunch of friends here that are genuinely good guys who take a lot of action in terms of game (most are broke though)

        Also, our physical web traffic servers are located here. As well as my assistant, and my business partner. (He lives upstairs)

        We also have PRIME logistics. Really baller pad right next to the bars, can have a woman come from the top venues to my place in under 5 minute walk.

        I could move to Miami, or Vegas, or etc. Problem is a lot of the best cities have insane state taxes that I am NOT willing to pay. Also Vegas its harder to build a rotation because the girls phase out of the city so fast (tourism), and I like long term retention of women I bang.

        After I move, I don’t know where to find wingmen who are wealthy, doing well with game (take action at least), and in good health. Just haven’t found those types of people anywhere.

    • Serb says

      Jesus bro, you’re already playing catch-up of sorts, working from the outside in.

      I guess that’s what low game/high income does to people – you try to look at ways how to move through the world by impressing people with your money.

      No, don’t take me the wrong way, I am not judging you (it just might come out like that on paper, without any background to it), I just have a lot of friends who make shitload of money (a lot more than I do) and see the world through that filter (as if everyone else is impressed by the same thing you are obsessed with, in a way), whereas at the end of the day you’re probably just going to attract gold diggers by trying to impress them with money.

      As the playboys said it in the post above (read it again, and again, and again!):

      “When you are young, girls care much less about how much money you make. They care much more about how cool you are (status). How attractive you are (looks). How funny and interesting you are (“game”). ”

      If you’ve got that much disposable income I would look into hiring a dating coach (hell, I can recommend you one or two that are in the area or wouldn’t mind flying over for a few days – been in that industry a decade ago, used to teach, met all the cool cats/real deal players over the years, know my shit) and for a few grand the right person can whip you into a proper fun, interesting, cool guy.

      Seems like you already got the style on lockdown (hey, you had enough brains to invest into an image consultant, why not do the same for your social life and hire a game/social consultant?!), as well as a pimp place, nice whip, the basics.

      Spend time in the gym and get into better shape, spend time out socializing and at events and contributing good times and laughs, “networking”, penetrating circles without showing off, bragging, tipping everyone in order to buy your way in… and only show your cards (in terms of your finances) when it comes to impressing guys from your now newly penetrated social circles that are considering doing business with you (or inviting you to their events).

      When it comes to girls, you can get away with just answering “sales” when asked what do you do, and if they persist with more questions respond with something super silly (“I sell ice to eskimos. Apparently quite profitable export opportunity… who would’ve known!”) just to let them know you don’t take that question (or line of questioning) seriously and that you’d appreciate it if they dropped it, cuz they won’t get anywhere with it. Own that frame – you don’t have to answer anything to anyone, bro. Especially some new chick who’s interested in how you got all that nice stuff around you, and wants to figure out how to get a piece of it (rather than figure out how to get into your pants). Offer them fun, sex, pleasure, not money. You’re using the wrong bait (even though it’s very important to HAVE it and not come off stingy, just don’t flash it like a typical douche millionaire would).

      You ever seen those Russian mafiozos, when asked what they do they answer with one of the two lines…. a) Export/Import (Sales) or b) Consulting. Feel free to use either. And that’s all you should give them (girls, that is).

      Dude, we could go on forever… just focus on the right stuff, and impress the girls with your style (not everyone can afford $5,000 outfit on a Tuesday afternoon), your ride (pick them up in your car, or invite them over for dinner and grab another parking spot next to yours in the building and tell them they can park right next to you in the spot XYZ, and have the figure out right off the bat, before even seeing you, that you’re well off, just by seeing a nice Porsche in a spot next to them). Get in shape. Work on your social skills, expand your circle of friends, get active in the nightlife or social events, and you’ll be killing it in no time.

      • says

        It’s funny you suggest getting coaching on dating

        I’ve been in pickup for 3 years

        Taken live programs

        And approached 5000 sets.

        So yes, I’ve already taken the actions you recommended.

        I think I should penetrate more social circles in my city though.

      • Wall Street Playboys says

        Ahh he’s only in his early 20s. He is making a stick a year.

        1) just get in shape he is definitely overweight
        2) still needs to improve his social skills (naturally will improve over the next 2 years)

        He’ll be fine. If he is comfortable *intelligently* spending $150-200K no girl is going to care long-term!

  3. says

    ALSO it’s worth to mention that I’m on a cutting cycle. Taking Anavar (mild oral anabolic steroid) and Albuterol stack to shred fat. I think hiring a trainer and maybe a dietician on top of this would be a solid way to ensure I reach my goal.

    My willpower in regards to business is pretty strong. But with diet and gym it’s god awful. I basically used all of it on biz and ignored health (smoked, did drugs, etc) but I’m crawling out of the hole I dug right now.

    • Wall Street Playboys says

      #1 stop taking steriods immediately! Do not do this you are only 22 and you’re damaging your body.

      #2 yes you must spend to show you have value our point is be strategic on what you spend it on. There are almost 10 suggestions in this post. At your income level charity events are great!

      #3 if you can’t move then keep spending on items we mentioned (as much as you feel comfortable) until you hit the “ceiling” where more spent doesn’t help you. Then you pretty much *have* to switch cities.

      They figure it out when 1) you walk into an expensive club/bar and everyone shakes your hand says hello and “comps you” free drinks because you always leave a 100% tip, 2) when you leave with a girl you don’t tell her you have a Porsche she just jumps in and finds out herself and 3) if pushed on the sales question just say you make “business to business sales that are high volume in xxx sector” (we’re guessing diet, skin care)

      Oh and finally, get in shape because your looks *will improve* especially as you get into your early 30s. You’re likely getting rejected by many for being “too young looking”. Charge it to the game and move on.

      • says

        – I did extensive research and the specific steroid I’m taking is extremely mild and unlikely to cause any long term harm (its less toxic than drinking a small amount of whiskey)

        I’m surprised at your stance on this considering D&P posted this http://www.dangerandplay.com/2013/04/25/the-truth-about-anabolic-steroids/

        You could be totally right though. I guess the reason I’m doing it is because like you said, it’s such a red alert emergency that I got this fat.

        – I already have a few top local venues on lock where if I come up to the door the bouncers know me (a lot of rapport from chatting on slow nights). I don’t have to wait in any lines, and when I do (unfamiliar venue) I just grease the bouncer and still appear relatively high status doing so. Our crew really hates waiting in lines.

        But the bartenders don’t really know me very well, so I guess I could start tipping higher and seeing what happens there.

        – Women rarely see my car unless it’s a day 2 since I walk everywhere. I understand game and obviously never mention anything about my vehicle. It’s kind of ironic, because you can’t proactively talk it, so it doesn’t really help you.

        – Thanks for the suggestions on how to describe the job.

        – One thing I really don’t understand about this post is… let’s say you’re in a club and the girl sees you at a table with bottle service. Ok, then she understands you’re wealthy. But how else would this even factor in unless you’re in that kind of environment where wealth is flaunted in an obvious way? I mean driving to get groceries, or taking a walk to the park, how is the girl going to know you’re a high earner?

        – I find it somewhat unnecessary to spend like $500k a year (10x the median) in such a manner where the girl would see it. I mean, isn’t it possibly to express wealth without constantly actively spending it? For example if you get some awesome threads and treat them right, you don’t have to buy new clothes for years. If she sees you have $600 shoes, she’s going to get you must have something going on. But that’s a one time cost that displays wealth/status for years and really doesn’t cost that much.

        – You could get a REALLY nice apartment here for only $3k a month. Mine costs $1615/mo and it’s considered baller by 95% of women out here (Dallas is a cheap major city and the women are actually quite hot in the right areas like Uptown).

        – You can also use drugs. I had a few strippers over the other night and they used my party favors and just assumed I was a baller of some kind if I could randomly give out $100 of snow like that. (The girls were young and super broke and kind of ratchet to be honest)

        – Driving to the gym now. Getting a trainer. Idk how else to use $ to my advantage. I order healthy food pre prepared and delivered to my door (effectively triples cost of food but worth it cause of time savings). Educate me?

        – BTW I lump sum invested $500k into VOO based on Warren Buffet’s advice a month ago, before you made that post saying to do that. I was like damn these guys think the same way as me 😛

      • says

        Here’s more of an explanation of why I don’t understand spending $500k-1M a year in order to get 9s and 10s.

        You could literally have a “very personal assistant” who’s a knockout 10 be your personal 24/7 on call helper… for much less than that.

        You could hire a different top knotch 10/10 escort every single day of the year and spend way less than that.

        I think 500-1M is overboard unless you are making a sick, sick amount or are old and about to die and need to spend spend spend…

        I’m 22 years old man. I feel like I should just be banging college chicks on $10 dates like everyone else. Some of them are really hot too. Lol

      • Wall Street Playboys says

        Since we’ve already gone through the personal finance stuff here is a post from Mike himself explaining why guys your age should *not* take steroids.

        http://www.dangerandplay.com/2012/08/10/why-young-guys-should-avoid-anabolic-steroids/

        Don’t do it.

        Now you have the tools on how much to spend on girls. It is really up to you.

        Again.

        Get healthy asap (you cannot spend money if you’re fat and about to die, not worth it *long-term*) and try to think creatively in terms of spending your money.

        No girl is worth your health. No money is worth your health either. Address that problem in 2015. No excuses!

        Edit: please read more of our game related posts. Particularly the one on doing the opposite.

        If you have to “grease the bouncer” you’re already in the red zone. He should smile and be happy to see you if you befriended him.

        Also the bouncers and bartenders always know attractive girls.

        Repeat after us. If you’re greasing anyone to *get in* you should get out.

  4. b says

    6 3 and looks will make girls get super nervous when they talk to you. Even if you’re a broke 22 year old in college. Turned heads even at clubs in major cities. (I won the genetic lottery… Seriously. Lol).

    Talk about going from an awkward 18 year old entering college to having bartenders hit on you. Crazy.

    Next is $$$.

  5. 232425 says

    23-24 years old range you realize how much of a better investment chasing money is to chasing girls.

    Having success with girls in the past (with little-median income), you realize that cute girls will always be around, but your ability to chase money effectively will not.

    Not to mention a sub 30 year old aggressively chasing cash puts off an attractive vibe anyway…

    Another great post!

  6. David Nystrom says

    I hope the Asian entrepreneur from Dallas is still reading this.

    My take is you are too worried about getting women.

    Fulfilling your sexual needs as a man is important, but is not everything.

    Be grateful you’ve achieved success so young. As you get older, especially if you get your body in order as WS Playboys is advising you, the women will come.

    I am 30. At your age I was an alcoholic piece of shit, and a few years later I was in jail.

    Today I am successful, handsome (note: I am white and Northern European, so I do not have the Asian handicap), and have a great personality. Women are easy to find.

    Keep working on your business. That is the most important thing. I am jealous, in a positive way, of your early success as a man.

    Also the WS Playboys writers, I know you say motivational stuff is for losers, but your stuff motivated me when I got out of jail. I went from zero to hero in part because of you guys. I am now about to take over a successful manufacturing business in the Midwest. Keep up the great work!

    • Wall Street Playboys says

      Ha! You were self motivated.

      You tried to find *actionable* advice to fix your life. You did. You fixed your life and would have found a way based on your personality.

      No successful person gets pumped up watching BS rocky videos.

  7. says

    Hey man… when you say 5x the median spend.

    Do you mean spending what a guy who makes $250k makes? (assuming 50k is the median here)

    OR spending $250,000 (the entire 5x pre tax median income?)

    • Wall Street Playboys says

      It is all post tax. If you’re spending in the $200K arena and struggle… The issue is 99/100 due to social skills or being out of shape/poorly dressed

      Again, being too hard on yourself at your age. You’re going to be fine. You already made the right life decisions. Cake walk from here.

      • says

        Wait so what do you mean EXACTLY By spending in the 200k arena?

        Wouldn’t 200k arena vary by the savings rate of the individual?

        I don’t struggle with women. I get laid a standard deviation or two more than the average. I just don’t have a harem of supermodels yet (which is my actual goal)

      • Wall Street Playboys says

        Ha! You’re seriously overthinking this wayyy too much and that is actually hurting your game (100% certain on that part)

        All metrics here are based on post tax median income (as noted in the post)

        Let’s wrap up this conversation:
        1) lose the weight you are definitely out of shape/physically no where near your peak
        2) don’t take steroids at 22
        3) become more creative with how you spend your money.
        4) wait a year to increase spending because you’re overthinking things and that is certainly impacting your social skills.
        5) get “social network friends” bartenders, bouncers, etc. Either everyone knows your name or no one does. Don’t be the latter.

        All set, good luck!

      • Alex says

        Adding in this discussion, it was not clear to me either.

        Say Median is $80k gross and median spends $24k per year in entertainment.

        Are you referring to us *spending* 3x $24k per year for entertainment or 3x $80k per year?

        Thanks in advance.

      • Wall Street Playboys says

        If it is 80K that means post tax it is about $45-50K.

        Multiply that by 3. If you are not consistently dating 7-8s while spending $135-150K there is something severely wrong with one of the other three categories.


        Alternatively if you are spending nothing but still doing well. You’re killing it in one of the other three categories:

        Bartenders, promoters, musicians etc.

        They have high status and social skills so they don’t need to spend the median. As clearly noted in the post.

    • says

      yo A

      You’re funny man

      We’re in affiliate marketing as well, Asian American, and I invested in VOO in 2012 before cashing out a couple of months ago

      Im in San Diego, hit me up.

  8. ASF says

    WSPB, I like and want to believe the 80% below average argument. However, we must always be cautious about believing things merely because we like the sound of it (confirmation bias) as opposed to because they are true. Could you expand on why you think this number is true as opposed to the simple arithmetic argument that 50% of people are below average (by definition)?

    • Wall Street Playboys says

      It is mathematically true (by definition!!!). Maybe it’s 60% maybe it is 80%. Simple math proves this out.

      Example: go look up the average income and the median income by major city. The average is *always* above the median (again by mathematical definition). This is basic math you should be able to figure out as a 14 year old in statistics class.

      The *floor* on income is $0. There is no ceiling on income. Therefore… Positive skewed distribution.

      Isn’t rocket science! You’re smarter than this and this should be intuitive. No one earns “negative dollars” while earning $1M, $10M and even $1B is possible.

      Add a billionaire to any room and the average income just got skewed positively.

      TL;DR by numerical fact you cannot have the median be above the average when you are in a large city. It is simply not possible (unless you’re in a city where income is capped? That case you should leave).

      It is literally impossible to have a standard bell curve when it comes to income. This is high school stats.

      Income = floor at 0 but… no ceiling.

      • ASF says

        Yes, I understand the income part, of course. Perhaps I should have been more specific. I am taking about an overall average that is not skewed by income or other things without a real upper bound. I mean ability, drive, intelligence, etc. Ex income characteristics. A billionaire is not one million times more anything (smarter, more driven, better looking, etc.) than the putative average person, except for the income/assets part. I have a lot of objective evidence that I am in the 20%, so I’m not that worried on that account. Maybe it’s one of those academic things that’s not worth even discussing.

        If this is just your gut feeling, that’s also fine. I suspect that you arrived at this from observation of human behavior and that it feels like that there are lot more below-average people than 50%.

      • Wall Street Playboys says

        Not even worth discussing. Everything in life that matters is a positively skewed distribution by definition.

        Go look up the dating studies, go look up income studies, then go look up athletic studies (again winner gets the spoils, income and dating options for the gold medalist >>>> bronze).

        So on and so forth.

        As long as you’re in the top 5% this should make sense and you can dig up the data to prove it if you get bored!

        Long-story short your intuition is already correct. If you get bored or drunk one day you can find the numbers to prove it out.

        This is also why 80% of people are a complete waste of time and effort.


        As a nail in the coffin. If someone isn’t rich, is out of shape, is not getting girls and is not happy… Why even bother measuring the other items you mentioned? It’s a waste. If you’re successful you’re rich, healthy, happy and have no problems with dating. All four of those can be easily measured and are positively skewed.

  9. Question says

    I just turned 30 and find it easier to get girls but my spending habits have not changed much. How does this fit into the post?

    • Wall Street Playboys says

      This literally proves the accuracy?

      Looks, social skills, money, status.

      You are in the flat portion of the graph.

      Therefore:
      1) you got better looking, most guys continue to get better looking from 21 to mid-thirties
      2) your social skills are better (10 years of experience goes a long way)
      3) sounds like your money situation is at the median.

      TL;DR: your looks and game got better so you’re doing better. Not much to contradict the topic of the post.

  10. says

    That’s some pretty interesting logic about the 7 figure net worth always having at least a 7 given the replication of a median income.

    I think our scales are off. 7 is pretty hot and the median person is 5 on my scale. Therefore, I don’t think the median income earner is with a 7, but with a 5.

    Just take a look at the crowd next time you are out and about. Would you be willing to hook up with the majority of people? I think the answer is “no” for most people, unless you are inebriated.

    A 6 is where non-inebriated people tend to draw the line for hooking up. A 7 is an enthusiastic thumbs up. A 5, not so much!

  11. CollegeBoy says

    Ha! I never thought of how the 1/5 rule at college would translate to ‘real life.’ I wonder how many women are aware of just how rationally they operate when it comes to dating (especially considering their romantic love-at-first-sight BS). A completely unrelated question- how many women do you think would be into the Frank Zane look (especially on a shorter guy)? Most ‘studies’ on the internet show Brad Pitt’s skinny fight club look to be the most popular across the board with women.

  12. RE Guy says

    So to summarize, if you can net a six figure passive or mostly passive income base which can be managed virtually, move to Buenos Aires (MI $20,000) and with all else being in order you should be able to consistently date 9+’s (BA certainly will have enough of them).

    As I see it regardless of where someone is, the three to first focus on:
    1) Prime Logistics
    2) Locking Down Venues
    3) Black Car Service

    And your comment on something being wrong if at 30+ you have to go out of your way to meet girls didn’t necessarily mean you had to have a social circle with girls being introduced to you (such as known in the art, charity or entertainment circles) but having one or a few locked down venues where you can consistently pull that is 5-10 minutes from your home. Although being known in circles like that could be something to aspire to.

    • Wall Street Playboys says

      Well done sir.

      Clearly buenos aires would be harder than a place like Brasil but you know that already and should understand the dynamics before choosing your destination.

      This is also why we are certain that anyone who has a “goal” of living in a third world country has never spent $250K gross (3x median in nyc).

      Not sure when it was an accomplishment to live in a third world country but… That’s the Internet!

      • Chris A. says

        New to the game, why is Buenos Aires harder than Brasil? I’m planning on taking a trip to South America next summer and was pretty excited about B.A.

        Referencing your Latinas article, is it because of the higher emphasis on social class? Wouldn’t money help more in B.A than in Brasil?

        Great article as usual guys. Appreciate all the work you all do.

        – C

      • Wall Street Playboys says

        In the future please place your comment on the relevant post.

        In short, they are more reluctant to “hook up” and are more closed off to sex relative to brazilians.

        Finally, money helps everywhere. The real line in this article is that if you’re spending 3x the median and are not getting girls you like… There is a serious problem with your looks, social skills or relative status.

      • says

        I spend 2X the median and I get 7’s on average though I have to approach a lot of women. How does that fit into this paradigm? AND I’m overweight! So I’m below average (or below average by WSPB standards) and I get above average, solid women.

        I think there is a sweat ethic, hard work factor in here too. If you’re aggressively pursuing women you can spend 1-2x the median and still get 8’s.

        I only spent like 5-10k a month which is about 2X the median. And that’s very recent numbers after I started spending more.

        I do tend to fuck a good number of gold diggers (that I don’t spend more than $50-100 per date/lay on) and won’t commit to girls and am very impatient (if they don’t fuck me fast I tend to cut them off)

        There are so many other X factors involved. For example if you’re willing to be extremely patient and be a girl’s boyfriend, you could bat way above your level. Or if you have a strong social circle connection to her, like being in the same class in college for a semester and spending every day with her until she feels super comfortable.

        Women from daytime approaches also tend to be on average a point hotter just by virtue of the context in which you met them and their decreased levels of superficiality compared to women in night clubs.

      • Wall Street Playboys says

        So you’re pretty much in line.

        You’re spending a bit more than you should (you need about the median to get 7s consistently) but you’re out of shape so you’re leaning more towards the cash flow.

        Pretty much exactly in-line with the post.

      • RE Guy says

        This blog is a great resource for me and I want to give back so I’ll add my own tactic for maximizing status with money.

        The comment about greasing the bouncer to get in meaning that you are already out is referring to the one-off transactional nature of the interaction. Getting to know the guy socially and having him want to let you in because he sees you as cool and bringing value to his life was the main point of how to build consistent value.

        Another move is to give people Criso’s, that is give them Christmas gifts (of cash). This is something you should do in your business as well with people who take care of you throughout the year. So around Christmas time you get a bunch of small generic “Happy Holiday” cards and envelops and put $50-$100 in each (or more if you roll like that). Then you hand those out to the 10-20 staff members at the venue that you see on a normal basis. This one time gift at an appropriate time with nothing expressly asked of the person (not transactional but instead friendly) will lead to a huge increase in your status at the venue. Further this is done after already having a baseline of rapport, your should already be acquaintances at this point if not friendly, you’re not opening with this.

        To use dorky PUA lingo, the holidays are an escalation opportunity where you can use your finances to make an impression on others, especially those making $10/hr (The other obvious ones where giving money to people is appropriate is tipping well while getting drinks or while eating there during the week).

        I also prefer this over buying a table because a) it’s actually cheaper b) your leverage with people from the bottom up (workers making 50k) is greater than from the top down (managers making 150k or whatever) thus they are more personally invested in you c) you just bought yourself 10-20 wingmen/wingwomen instead of one or two d) the maintenance cost is lower than having to buy another table every month or every other month (you still need to find opportunities to add value to these people, but those opportunities don’t cost 3k a piece).

        You want to know how to compete with those guys in the 8 figure range? That’s how. Be a man of the people.

      • Wall Street Playboys says

        Honestly comments like this are fantastic. We know we’re catering to winners.

        Like the bottoms up strategy if you’re not going for the jugular out the gate.

        Well done RE Guy!

  13. Median categories says

    Since this post is based on someone at the median in the other three categories can you help define what that would be for looks, status and game?

    • Wall Street Playboys says

      Sure here’s the jist.

      Looks: you are about 5’8″. You are roughly 13-15% body fat. You are not fat or skinny or ripped. You know how to wear appropriate fitting clothes. You look better with a shirt on than a shirt off at the beach.

      Game: you don’t have social anxiety issues. You can spark a convo at a bar with girls or at a coffee shop. You do not have cold hard calculated regimens. A guy with incredible game can teach you a trick or two but you don’t *need* advice. You are socially normal.

      Status: since you’re at the median it doesn’t hurt or help you. You are not a DJ, bartender, promoter, musician, gangster, or ball player. You are simply a typical guy in the environment. You are not able to push guys around with status symbols (tables, bottles, sports car).

      Should have been the second paragraph of the post since we’ve been banning ridiculous comments about their “bartender friends” which clearly violate the status piece of the post.


      Edit: added definition to main part of the post to avoid crazy examples of”exceptions to the rule” such as promoters, bartenders, looks etc.

  14. Neocrummer says

    I hit, exceed, or am within 95% of the body measurements; however, my wrists are extremely small at 6 inches, thus I am not big. If it doesn’t cut into what’s important, is it a good idea to shoot for measurements ideal for a 7 inch wrist (average)?

  15. I am not a WSP shill says

    I just want to thank you guys for providing *actionable advice* for us. There’s far too much wishywashy follow-your-dreams bullshit out there and you guys just blow it all out of the water. Also thanks for avoiding all that “redpill” community nonsense, and focusing on what really matters–green–money.

    Keep on delivering the goods, WSP!

    • Wall Street Playboys says

      You’re welcome sir.

      There is a *huge* difference between a limiting belief and reality (we all can’t run a 100m dash in 10 seconds flat)

      If you’re average at the other three categories you need to bring something to the table. Always try to max out all three. But. Money can help a *ton*.

  16. Jay says

    I don’t want to say this, because it’s embarrassing to actually be discouraged but I look inside me and I actually am after reading this article. I’m studying computer engineering at a top 5 university in my field, and I am working my hardest to get into high frequency trading/systems programming at a top firm after I graduate by networking with recruiters in fintech/quant shop firms and doing my best to get a high GPA. Lately, I’ve been quite doubtful of actually achieving that since there’s less than a 0.5% acceptance rate at these firms. I’ve applied to Harvard and Stanford in high school and couldn’t get in at even a >5% acceptance rate.

    There’s no viable women here in college so I was really hoping things would change after I graduate, and I’m working my ass off for it, but maybe I’m just not that good in the end. So then I would have to settle for an $80k a year entry job at some firm, and it’ll just get worse and worse when realizing time is constantly ticking and I won’t make enough to land an 8. I was planning on having $500k net worth (Despite your advice saying it’s *necessary* to have 1m+) by the time I’m 30 but now it’s been hammered that isn’t enough to keep the top caliber women. What should I do in case my high frequency trading dream doesn’t work out in the end? Am I doomed unless I go full YOLO and create a startup? Even worse is that I have the Asian American handicap so I just feel I’m 90% doomed, and I’m just chasing the other 10%.

      • Jay says

        I was perhaps considering there could be a huge skewed bias on what you guys constitute a 7 and an 8. What percentile of women would you guys consider a 6, 7, 8, and 9+? And are the images consistent with what you guys have in your pitchbook?

      • Wall Street Playboys says

        Not important.

        A 7 is someone you would be *proud* of (your friends and family would meet them and give a positive head nod of approval).

        Anything above that is where it gets extremely competitive.

        Most people are generally stuck in the 6 range when drunk + making questionable decisions.

  17. Xavi says

    Money helps but its not necessary to get hot girls. Looking good and actually talking to girls is. 60 percent of guys are obese. And most of these guys wont talk to girls. Theyre just standing there being furniture. Thats why actually doing your best to look good and talk to chicks will eventually get you results. Sometimes youll hit chubby ones. Sometimes above average girls. Sometimes hot girls. Either way youll be bustin your nuts. Emphasize the fact that most guys dont change its too hard for them to go to the gym, hit on some girls, diet strictly and work day n nite to get that paper.

  18. quote says

    Your recent tweet:

    “1) indirect game 2) complain 3) brag about “$100K” (median) 4) claim to bang “9s” 5) *compete* at the club/bar LOL”

    Completely agree with all of these (2-5). Can you please give your definition of direct vs. indirect? Just for clarification?

    • Wall Street Playboys says

      It means you don’t waste 15 minutes trying to “warm her up to you”.

      1) meet through friends/business associates/charities so your value is already high
      2) then simply say you’re cool lets do xyz

      No need for some elaborate bs pick up move where you pretend you’re asking for something else beyond the reality. Which is you think she’s cute and you know you have value so just get the date and move on.

      If she is dumb enough to not even give a single date to a *well dressed millionaire*… Her life isn’t going anywhere meaningful later on anyway. Her loss and move on.

      Don’t be mean about it, just be direct and honest. Move on.

      • Anonymous says

        Thanks for the quick reply – assume this applies for a “cold” assumption opener during the day as well.

      • says

        Bro, how do they know you’re a millionaire?

        My stylist friend probably makes 50-100k a year TOPS and he looks like 11/10 well dressed at all times.

        And if you’re telling to just say I do “sales” then its going to be even harder to figure out.

      • Wall Street Playboys says

        … The money part *doesn’t* matter. If you don’t spend it, it doesn’t exist to them.

        Please re-read the post and comments we answered this for you.

        1) drugs / party favors
        2) automatic entrance and hand shakes with top end venues
        3) nice whip never talk about it
        4) nice logistics
        5) any and *all* venues where you can elevate your status in the environemnt

        Use the money to elevate your status relative to the dregs around you. That’s how you gain hand. We can’t figure out what that is in your city. In places like NYC it is extremely obvious who is well off and who is not. You have to get creative on your own. It will take about 1-2 years to find your niche. You will be fine.

      • says

        If that’s the case, for the most part, I’ve done all of this correctly already. The bars nearby I just handshake in, no bribe needed, and they are the most popular spots in the area (nothing in Dallas is really THAT exclusive, though everything in my area is relatively “nice”)

        I already dress well like you said, and when I mean nice, I mean TRULY nice like people notice and mention it constantly and I’m not wearing any $150 bargain suits. There’s a visual “wow” factor involved that conveys a lot of status. I suggest any guy with extra cash hire someone to handle this, it’s well worth ti.

        My logistics are pretty much ideal, you can walk a girl out the front door of the club and into my apartment in 3-5 minutes and it’s in the central part of the best part of town with highest concentration of hotties.

        I have plenty of snow chilling, easiest pull hook ever and gets girls to comply and feel indebted to me, also pumps their emotional state up for me.

        I also have a Porsche that I never talk about, though it rarely helps me because women don’t see it that often.

        So seems like I’ve handled the wealth part perfectly according to your suggestions. Though one improvement I got out of your comments is to just say I’m in “sales”. Though that could mean anything, like maybe I’m a car salesman making $50k a year… that’s what I’m confused about

        The alternative kind of sucks though, saying you’re the owner of a company or etc just sounds ridiculous and braggy.

      • Wall Street Playboys says

        Yep step 1) get in shape you are out of shape. That is step #1 no girl is worth your health unless you are crazy

        Step 2) mess with your job answer. Honestly try to be more intersting, they don’t even ask if they are having fun.

        Those are two spots to fix. Good luck!


        Edit: your intensity about this topic is likely making you appear immature in real life. Ie: also suggest relaxing a bit, being hyped is an immature emotional state.

      • says

        I agree with you that in terms of GAME, moving slower and talking slower and being more chill is superior to frantically trying to make things happen.

        In a certain sense I would say that applying that same general approach to my Internet Marketing stuff is actually somewhat helpful in some cases. Though dealing with others in biz I should probably come across like you said.

        People probably give me more info cause they can sense I’m a young upstart newbie who wants to make it.

        I know a lot of guru type guys in my field helped me a lot because I had the broke, hungry kid energy when I started. It’s not black and white, but again you’re right.

        p.s. I’m on intense stimulants right now so that makes me more intense/rushed than I’d normally be

    • says

      Would you elaborate on this part below? I’m a bit confused bro. Trying to fully understand all you’re recommending.

      Edit: your intensity about this topic is likely making you appear immature in real life. Ie: also suggest relaxing a bit, being hyped is an immature emotional state.

      • Wall Street Playboys says

        Being extremely uptight and intense is an emotional state for young men.

        Older guys are slower, calmer and don’t get hyped up.

        The fact that you respond very fast with long messages shows you’re younger. Not an insult, just stating reality.

        1) try to talk slower in real life
        2) chill out a bit more
        3) work on your story telling because girls shouldn’t even ask what you do for a living. (They only do that when the conversation dies – boredom)

        You are trying to solve your issue with fast paced intensity at all times (hence you are all over the comments section right now) when you’re probably better off doing things slower to appear older and more mature.

      • Recent graduate says

        @A

        1) Yep, I agree 100% with what WSP said.

        I used to comment way too much on this site, but then I came across this line by Francis Bacon:

        “For he that talks what he knows, will also talk what he knows not.”

        After reading this, I realized that some of the comments I posted were quite stupid but I had posted them anyways because I simply wanted to comment.

        Learning to think before you talk is extremely important because one day, you just might spill the beans (yours and perhaps your partner’s) to a future competitor who will put you out of business!

        2) You’re overthinking game.

        It is simply “highlighting gender differences” – Allan Pease “The Definitive Book of Body Language”

        So, whatever makes a girl attractive just be the opposite.

        So like:

        Girl = wants to be with another person at all times (insecure)
        Guy needs to be able to go solo (confidence)

        Girl = thin
        Guy needs to be fit and strong

        Girl = submissive
        Guy needs to be dominant (status = dominance)

        Girl = young and rounded face
        Guy needs to have older and edgier face

        I hope this helps!

      • RE Guy says

        Not sure if I’m commenting in the right spot but this is your answer.

        @A

        1) You may be stuck in some classic psychological traps, you want girls to “feel indebted” to you in order to get them to have sex with you. You don’t see yourself as sex worthy in and of yourself. In other words whatever things you buy with the money should be a supplement to an already cool and interesting person and not the main draw. Psychologically you may see the sex as transactional and that could be hurting you. Also getting in shape as mentioned should help with this.

        2) You say “saying you’re the owner of a company or etc just sounds ridiculous and braggy.” as if there was a one size fits all version of how to say this. Essentially you are judging yourself from the outside of what you think a girl would think if you said this. You have internalized the judgement of women or others to the point where you self-censor. Nothing “sounds braggy” without a point of reference, if something sounds a certain way it has to sound that way to someone.

        Here’s what I mean. You could tell a girl that you’re a “bazillionaire”. Do this with a smirk on your face. Tell her you make “1 bazillion dollars a day” and then when she asks you to buy her a drink tell her “you’re tapped out right now.” She’ll laugh at this because it’s ridiculous. Then loop her in with some qualification like “But you do seem really cool, tell me xyz”, let her qualify herself to you and then tell her that based on that qualification that you would want to have a drink with her. Then look puzzled, check your phone and go “Oh look, I just made enough for a drink while we were talking, I guess now I can get you one.” Now you’ve given her a fun little mystery to unravel about your worth/status and you can go up and down with this through the night.

        One way to do this if you have a more witty, fast paced style: “I have a PORSCHE!!!… that I’m borrowing from my mom…. just kidding. I don’t even know why I bought it. I feel like people are so materialistic, I just want people to appreciate me for me. Do you consider yourself materialistic? Tell me how you would describe yourself.”

        Or being slower: “I have a PORSCHE!!!… does that make you like me more? On a scale of 1-10 how much more do you like me for having a Porsche?” If she goes low or zero, congratulate her on not being materialistic and qualify from there (this is a slower cook). If she goes high, joke that you’re glad the two of you are on the same page and escalate (she wants what you’ve got and there should be little bullshit). If she goes negative or pushes back like “Now that you told me, I like you less” tell her “I wasn’t telling you because I want you to like me more, I was saying it because I wanted to see what kind of person you are. I don’t like how materialistic some girls are and I want someone different. If you had been all enthusiastic that would have been a turn-off(lie).” (don’t backpedal or apologize, remember you weren’t SERIOUSLY telling her you had a Porsche, it was a test to see who she was, right?)

        Alternatively tell her you are homeless. That’s what I tell girls, that I am homeless. And I’m clearly successful and educated. And they laugh.

      • RE Guy says

        @A

        Just because I’m in the mood and this is fun.

        So to expand the Porsche idea (And this applies to being wealthy/successful in general):

        Being a man with a Porsha is like being a woman with a set of perfect DD tits.

        Essentially you’ve got what the other sex almost universally desires or at the very least appreciates, but you can’t just put it all out there or you look bad and get a lot of low quality attention.

        So the girl with the great rack has to dress more conservatively than her less well-endowed peers in order to get the right type and amount of attention. If you have ever dated a well-endowed woman, she’ll tell you that most regular necklines make her look like a “slut” because she has so much cleavage.

        So she can either go ultra conservative and only guys with an eye for quality like myself will be able to notice and will try to capitalize. Corollary you can never talk directly about money but certain women will pick up on your socioeconomic status through a hundred little mannerisms that they are observing for (Also these girls will never ask you directly about your income because they know better, the same way I would never ask a girl I hadn’t had sex with her bra size or “are they real?”).

        She can go with revealing and put it all out there, which for a girl less well-endowed would be fine, but for her she will get a lot of thirsty guys making bold sexual statements to her and the guys that she would like to talk to her and get to know her will assume she is easy and perhaps treat her that way if she doesn’t DEFLECT that bad attention and REDIRECT somewhat positive attention into what she wants (A dating/courtship type situation). Corollary if you lead with the Porsche then you will get women who will try to use you like an ATM and will put up barriers to sex because they see you as having a lot of money potential and that will almost certainly outweigh your sex potential. (Also why I am against fame and bottle service, but to each their own)

        Finally she can do what the smart ones do and what you should do and that is diplomatically and with plausible deniability display her assets. So she shows her cleavage off just a little and when flirting with you gives you a sneak peak from an advantaged angle, or subtly touches them to bring attention there, or rubs them up against you “accidentally”. Since she is doing this diplomatically she will also always deny this was ever her intent (if you’re wondering why girls get mad at you for calling them out for dressing sexually i.e. “If you dressed that way then you wanted me to look at you/say something!” there is your answer). Corollary if you make a joke of the Porsche or act like it’s no big deal or even that it gets you the wrong type of attention (girls do this, “Why are all these guys hitting on me?”) it allows you to bring it up and display your wealth/value while maintaining plausible deniability. By the way this only works if she tests your or changes the subject if you really do just go along with it and don’t feel like you NEED her to acknowledge that you have a Porsche (“Hey wait a minute, I want ot talk about my Porsche, don’t change the subject!”).

        So you complaining about not getting benefits from the Porsche that you want is the same as a girl claiming that her perfect rack isn’t netting her an awesome boyfriend. We all know the potential is there, it’s a matter of social skill, not talent.

        Finally for the psychological angle, if you accept that money makes you attractive to women and use it with plausible deniability then that is diplomacy. If you are in denial of this but still use it (it’s part of you so how can you not?) then it is rationalization. If a girl uses her great tits to get guys but knows what she is doing and accepts it as part of her appeal then it is diplomacy. If she is in denial of it and doesn’t see that aspect of her body as being part of her and part of her appeal then she is rationalizing.

  19. Art21 says

    “Boring City, Limited Upside”. You are so damn right.
    In future you can write a post regarding the opportunities that a big city (NY, LA London, etc) gives…

    • Wall Street Playboys says

      Pretty much the same old. No limit to upside in a city of millions (law of large numbers).

      Of course if the city is just generally full of unattractive girls (to you) just move.

      Smal cities… Your venue choices are limited so 1) you get bored faster, 2) selection declines and 3) harder to “flash” to improve your status.

  20. Student says

    LOL. This type of post didn’t attract me as much, as I wouldn’t consider myself having any great issues here as a college student ATM [ in shape, dress pretty well, hard-working, confident, African-American]. But definitely highlighted some things to look out for in the distant.

    Surprised at how deep some of you guys have thought about this through experience! Not surprised at how successful the commentators seem to be.

    TBH – the comment section here is better than most people’s blogs.

    Speaks volumes.

  21. Student says

    As an aside: As a college student who’s hardworking it sure does take damn focus on your goals and a flip in your mindset. I literally had a friend call me to tell me a girl forgot his name just now. Privileged. How can that be anything worth getting sad about?

    For me personally at this stage, I have the tendency to drop women/girls at the 6-8 month mark. I literally have no clue why. Have to let them go once they get super clingy. The most recent one was a lady 10 years older during an summer IB internship (very-good looking + she knew her looks were fading) who got clingy fast.

    Even though you recommended going out once/twice a week, I’d probably say since finding this blog in September I’m averaging going out once a month. And I don’t feel bad about it.

    I’m young and penniless and chasing success; as my body continues to improve and my confidence becomes more solid, it gets easier when I do go out that once a month.

    Just got to endure!

    Thanks for the outstanding work.

  22. sadfsadf says

    I want to really thank you guys for everything that you are posting on this site.

    Before this I was completely lost (I also lost 1-2 years on my peers due to health issues, no fun there. I feel terrible about lost time — it really is one of the worst feelings in the world).

    However finding everything put me in the right direction to get everything moving again.

  23. Tommy says

    Good day,

    Thank you very much for the graph explaining how 80% of people are below average.

    The graph has increased my sense of inner peace. I used to get angry, wondering why people seem to deliberately seek a life of senseless decisions, but now I see it is senseless getting angry when the majority are simply by design below average, rather than willfully mediocre.

    I also often wondered whether I am crazy for not following the crowd, and this doubt is now dispelled.

    I am thus quite grateful for the explanation. Thank you again.

  24. BH says

    So if you’re a female who falls in the 9-10 category and you know this, should you only date guys who make at least 5X the medium income (even if you yourself have a good income) and have a 7-figure net worth? Just curious what you’d say if you had a sister, for example, and she had a great education and job, and is attractive enough to fall in the category of a 9-10. Should money be a deciding factor in dating and where should she set the floor?

    • Wall Street Playboys says

      Those types can do whatever they like.

      Generally if they are born rich they will veer towards good looking men with swagger instead of a rich guy.

      This is why American men are so obsessed with their own appearance and “game” nowadays.

      In short, would tell her to find a guy she finds attractive that will *actually commit* to her. Otherwise it is a waste since money is a non-issue.

  25. BH says

    True, for women with trust funds. But what about women who are successful on their own merits and also attractive? Surely they still care about money? They don’t want to work hard only to end up a “sugar momma” to some man who is attractive and has game but has no substance.

    • Wall Street Playboys says

      Ha not a woman so don’t know.

      Generously if she’s attractive and successful her pool of men actually *shrinks* she expects a ton out of a guy and usually runs around looking for a unicorn.

      Just find a guy who is above average. If she is a 9/10… Guys who think they have a chance are usually going to be making $200K+ anyway.

      So the same answer remains in place. Find a guy that she finds attractive (realizing no dude is going to be perfect) and make sure he is actually going to commit. Her looks will fade (25 peak at maximum) and no successful guy cares about her career. Why? He is already successful so he doesn’t care if she makes $10K or $200K. It’s irrelevant.

      That last bit on not caring about $10K vs $200K is legitimate. Personally would rather date a girl who looks good + is fun and don’t care if she mops floors or works at Soros.

  26. Johnny Q+ says

    Great post.

    The obvious followup question: if that was for the Median Man, what happens for men who are top 10% in all areas and have 5-10x disposable? I can’t say I’ve ever met that guy.

  27. Izzy says

    Hey,

    I just wanted to touch upon a statement you made quite early in the post,

    “1) get in incredible shape and join a sports team”

    I know the article had little to do with this so not sure if i’m commenting on the right article but what are your opinions on joining sports team to meet athletic/thin/in-shape women? I for one played basketball competitively, through 2 years of college, and would dislike playing against worse competition just for the sake of meeting hot chicks. Would you recommend just joining a competitive league for fun and meeting girls elsewhere or would it be best to combine the two forms,after all it would most likely boost your status being a great player?

    Thanks for the advice in advance!

    • Wall Street Playboys says

      Can’t really answer this for you. If you have time to play in two leagues go for it.

      In general no one cares about athletic accomplishments once you’re out of college.

      If you’re playing to play that’s fine. If you’re playing to get girls… It’s not going to work unless you’re around girls. It’s not like college or highschool anymore where you get status for being on a good team. It will look as if you’re trying to relive the “good old days”.

      So either 1) play for you – IE: for fun or 2) play a sport to meet girls, girls do not play in hyper competitive college level skills sports

  28. Johnny Depp says

    Can you elaborate on how to spend money to meet women?

    The examples you gave:

    1) front row tickets to a concert, 2) tables directly next to the DJ, 3) large sporting events such as the Mayweather Pacquiao fight, 4) high end art events, 5) charity events where you are seen literally giving money away, 6) nice apartment/condo in the center of the city, 7) using a black car service at all times, 8) drugs

    Only tables next to DJ, art events, charity events, drugs allow you to meet women. All the other ones help you close the deal but assume you are on a date with some girl.

    • Wall Street Playboys says

      Use the event to sell the date when you initiate the convo.

      Just talk about numerous topics, as soon as you find something she gets excited about you know what the “date” is going to be.

      If this doesn’t work then conversational skills have very serious problems.

  29. says

    Dudes, you have articulated what I’ve been thinking for so long. I started out in management consulting in NYC, then went to Silicon Valley. I learned game as a PUA instructor…. and now that I’m in my 30s (31) I am starting to see how game can have its limitations without the proper use of money to create “experiences” for girls.

    -Vince

  30. Marcofornominee says

    One important thing to note or at least clarify is that you’re talking about dating and LTRs, not exactly flings and one night stands. I know some guys who make 60 to 70k per year yet have high lay counts due to being in good shape, using apps to meet women (thank god for Tinder and Hinge), and are involved in activities that introduce them to good looking women. The women are indeed quite beautiful, one of the girls looked almost identical to Amber Heard.

    Now a lot of these women aren’t going to marry them or even go for them long term but they get these girls for flings (some have sent me snapchats and pics of these girls naked with them when the girl wasn’t looking) and one night stands. One of the guys is Indian as well and you guys claim that Asians and Indians have it the worst so I felt the need to mention that.

    If we’re talking LTRs and marriage, then in that case it becomes more about money.

    Don’t knock some of the smaller cities either guys, they can be amazing for women. I have met tons of good looking women in places like Tallahassee and Denver. Then again, in those places the good looking girls are less choosier compared to the beauties in NYC.

    Money is a great asset to have but when it comes to getting laid, it sure as hell isn’t important. Good looks (regardless of race btw), being proactive, getting involved in activities that bring in good looking women, and doing fun activities can take you a lot farther than money though if add cash to all that then it only benefits you more.

    PS: I know you used the blonde hair blue eyed example but from my experience, it seems like among white males, women tend to go after the Christian Bale, Henry Cavill, Ben Affleck, and John Stamos type of guys as opposed to a Chris Hemsworth.

      • Marcofornominee says

        Really? I guess it is just my experience in my 20s but I notice that the guys working as lifeguards on beaches, ski instructors on resorts, model photographers hardly making much money, and guys who work in the service industry are having much more success landing flings and one night stands compared to the guys working in finance and other lucrative professions.

        Then again, you guys have more life experience than I do so I can only share what I have seen for myself.

        I guess the biggest issue here is the time. The guys who are making a lot of money are also working long hours to where they are burned out. Compare that to the guys who are working in industries that force them to be around a lot of attractive women and as a result they get to sleep around with a lot of these girls, they aren’t getting them for LTRs though.

        I notice that the girls will sleep around with and fuck the guys who fit that somewhat broke but more jock-like, muscular, and rugged but when it comes to LTRs, marriage, and those types of things these girls are running straight to the guys making bank.

        Just read through the blog and I think you guys have a very innovative and new way of thinking about the game. It’s sad that you guys don’t do dating related posts anymore.

  31. WahlstreetReader says

    One other thing I might add since you guys talk so much about escaping the long work hours and being set in your 30s is lifestyle choices to help you meet attractive women. One of my favorites in college was bartending, you would be amazed at how much quality bartenders got from college girls or even older guys who bartended in college towns.

    I was wondering how lifestyle choices like this would work for a guy in his 30s that has moved up and doesn’t have a family. Thinking work on weekdays and bartend on weekends if you have the energy for it.

  32. Elack Crause says

    In regards to age on this thread, it just isn’t the same as you get older for some reason. When you’re younger and both you and the girl are around the same age, there is just something there that just feels special. I guess it is when you are going through the motions or something, but there is just something about getting hot girls at 21 or 22 as opposed to getting them at 35.

    Hooking up with a cute girl when you are both 21 at a college bar or something versus getting with her when you’re 30. Money matters but it just makes the whole thing a lot less enjoyable. Maybe it is because my ego is HUGE and I prefer to pull hot girls without having to resort to cash at all or even dropping a dime on a date. I hate the idea of going to an expensive event with a hot girl because it makes it seem like she likes the idea of my riches and having sex with me is more of a burden rather than something amazing.

    I like the idea of being rich, fucking love it! I hate the idea of girls knowing I am rich, because it makes me feel worthless as a guy when it comes to girls. I absolutely hate the idea of having to spend a dime on a woman, maybe that is why college was so appealing to guys like me.

    You could get girls based on looks, status, and game rather than showing off with cash. I like the idea of showing her the riches once she has proven herself to me because other than that, I feel like I am dating a fucking gold digging whore.

  33. says

    Nothing but the raw harsh BUT beautiful truth about woman and money and status and the game.

    thanks for this info.

    btw, when WSP will launch a book? I want to buy.

  34. Ally says

    I’m in college right now and find guys who want to spend on me a huge turn off. If a guy pays for my dinner/drink, I will either refuse or (if he payed beforehand and I can’t refuse) never go out with him again. I either have enough money to pay for myself or I will not be going out on a date in the first place. I would feel like a gold digger or like I owed the guy something if I were to accept his money. However, I do have high standards when it comes to the guy’s looks, social skills, personality, etc… But than, again, I might just be an exception to the rule and the majority of girls might be more than happy to accept free food/drinks.

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